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[CLJ-1042] [PATCH] Allow negative substring indices for (subs) Created: 14/Aug/12  Updated: 19/Sep/12  Resolved: 17/Sep/12

Status: Closed
Project: Clojure
Component/s: None
Affects Version/s: Release 1.5
Fix Version/s: None

Type: Enhancement Priority: Minor
Reporter: Ian Eure Assignee: Unassigned
Resolution: Declined Votes: 0
Labels: enhancement, patch

Attachments: Text File clj-1042-negative-indices-patch3.txt     Text File negative-subs.patch    
Patch: Code and Test

 Description   

This adds Python-style negative string indices for (subs), e.g.:

(subs "foo bar" -3) ;; -> "bar"



 Comments   
Comment by Andy Fingerhut [ 16/Aug/12 7:17 PM ]

Ian, thanks for the patch. It is Rich Hickey's policy only to consider applying patches to Clojure from those who have signed a Clojure contributor agreement: http://clojure.org/contributing

Were you interested in doing so, or perhaps it is already in progress?

Comment by Ian Eure [ 20/Aug/12 11:44 AM ]

I wasn't aware that this was necessary. I'm mailing the form in.

Comment by Andy Fingerhut [ 27/Aug/12 7:56 PM ]

Patch clj-1042-negative-subs-patch2.txt dated Aug 27 2012 is identical to Ian Eure's negative-subs.patch, except it is in the desired git format.

Ian, for future reference on creating patches in the desired format, see the instructions under the heading "Development" on this page: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/JIRA+workflow

Comment by Ian Eure [ 28/Aug/12 11:47 AM ]

Thanks, will do.

Comment by Steve Miner [ 04/Sep/12 3:53 PM ]

If Clojure decides to support Python-style negative indices, you should also consider adding support to subvec.

Comment by Ian Eure [ 06/Sep/12 12:17 PM ]

Patch extended to support negative indices on (subvec) as well.

Comment by Adrian Bendel [ 07/Sep/12 8:01 AM ]

The arg to rindex should probably be tagged with ^clojure.lang.Counted instead of ^String now.

Comment by Steve Miner [ 07/Sep/12 1:31 PM ]

Regarding the previous comment, String is a Java class so it isn't a clojure.lang.Counted. Is the type hint necessary? Maybe it should be on the call rather than the defn.

Ignoring the type hinting, I'll suggest a slightly simpler way to implement the rindex logic:

(defn rindex [coll i]
(if (neg? i) (+ (count coll) i) i))

In any case, I'm not sure rindex should be public even if you want the subs and subvec enhancements. Someone needs to make the case for adding a new function to core.

The Pythonic negative index is a debatable feature since it's pretty easy to implement for yourself if you want it.

Comment by Adrian Bendel [ 07/Sep/12 11:05 PM ]

Sorry, the type hint on rindex args isn't necessary at all. Just looked up in the source, calling count should never be reflective, since (count ..) emits calls to clojure.lang.RT/count.

Your solution looks good.

Comment by Stuart Halloway [ 17/Sep/12 7:07 AM ]

Negative indices were considered and rejected a long time ago. (I am merely conveying information--I have no strong opinion on this one.)

Comment by Andy Fingerhut [ 17/Sep/12 12:07 PM ]

Note: If some people really like negative index behavior as in Perl or Python, it is straightforward to create a library of functions in a different namespace, perhaps with different names, that can do it. Perhaps a "pythonisms" library?

Comment by Ian Eure [ 18/Sep/12 12:31 PM ]

Would this be accepted as part of clojure.string instead? I considered putting it there, but thought it would be confusing to have multiple substring functions in different namespaces.

This is very helpful in practice, and I'd really like to see at least the (subs) stuff in Clojure.

Comment by Andy Fingerhut [ 18/Sep/12 2:52 PM ]

Disclaimer: I'm no Clojure/core member, so can't speak authoritatively on whether something would or would not be accepted into clojure.string.

However, given that clojure.string is distributed with clojure.core, my guess is it would not be accepted. You'd be able to get things like this out for you and others as a separate library distributed on Clojars. That would also make it easy to include other Python-like things that you don't find in Clojure already.

Comment by Ian Eure [ 18/Sep/12 4:02 PM ]

This isn't about "python-like things," this is about a useful feature. Lots of languages support this: Perl, PHP, Ruby, Python, JavaScript, to name a few. Are you really suggesting that I should create a whole package for a version of a function in clojure.core with slightly different semantics? That's insane.

Anyway, I'm done wasting my time trying to navigate this hopelessly broken process. Maybe it would have been accepted if I included yet another way to interoperate with Java types.

Comment by Michael Klishin [ 18/Sep/12 5:09 PM ]

Stuart, do you remember why specifically negative indexes were rejected? Developing a separate library for a minor improvement to an existing function sounds unreasonable.

Comment by Carlos Cunha [ 18/Sep/12 5:10 PM ]

some explanation about this topic was given by Rich Hickey himself here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2053908

citation:
"...Yes, there is a backlog from when it was just me, and it will take a while to whittle down. We have finite resources and have to prioritize. I can assure you we have more important things to concentrate on than your negative index substring enhancement, and are doing so. You'll just have to be patient. Or, if you insist, I'll just reject it now because a) IMO it's goofy, b) you can make your own function that works that way c) we don't get a free ride from j.l.String, d) it begs the question of negative indices elsewhere..."

i've been following this thread hoping this feature would be included. but whatever the reason was for the rejection, i'm sure it was thoughtful. great thanks for this wonderful language, and thanks Ian Eure for his effort.

Comment by Steve Miner [ 18/Sep/12 5:25 PM ]

That HN link eventually leads back to CLJ-688 which was rejected.

Comment by Stuart Halloway [ 19/Sep/12 12:03 PM ]

Michael: A proposal for negative indexes would need to be systematic in considering implications for all functions that have index arguments.

Ian: Clojure is driven by design, not incremental piling of features.

All: clojure.string is incomplete in more important and fundamental ways than negative indexes. This sucks now, and will suck worse as more code is written in different dialects. I find myself wishing string was a contrib, so we could iterate faster.

Comment by Andy Fingerhut [ 19/Sep/12 1:34 PM ]

Stuart: Any specific proposals for how you'd like to see clojure.string improve? If it can be made a contrib, that would be cool, but understood if that would be considered too breaking of a change. Even if it isn't made a contrib, having tickets for improvement ideas you are willing to see means patches might get written, and they'll get in some time.

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